Comments on: Open Letter to Iain Dale… http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/ Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:10:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Bloggerheads http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-8934 Bloggerheads Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:57:39 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-8934 <strong>Cyberbullying...</strong> Now remember, children; Stop Cyberbullying Day is about standing up to bullies and standing up for their victims. It is not designed as a propaganda device for bullies* who play the victim when someone stands up to them. (*The same...... Cyberbullying…

Now remember, children; Stop Cyberbullying Day is about standing up to bullies and standing up for their victims. It is not designed as a propaganda device for bullies* who play the victim when someone stands up to them. (*The same……

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By: Bloggerheads http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-8433 Bloggerheads Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:48:54 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-8433 <strong>Iain Dale's many small deceptions (and one big flounce)...</strong> flounce (verb): To walk or move with exaggerated, affected or unnatural motions expressive of self-importance or self-display. When I first raised an objection or twelve about the way Paul de Laire Staines conducted himself as a blogger, I made...... Iain Dale’s many small deceptions (and one big flounce)…

flounce (verb): To walk or move with exaggerated, affected or unnatural motions expressive of self-importance or self-display. When I first raised an objection or twelve about the way Paul de Laire Staines conducted himself as a blogger, I made……

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By: Reactionary Snob http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7643 Reactionary Snob Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:38 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7643 Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to curry facour with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to curry favour with an opposition. Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend's son was briefly Cameron's Chief of Staff and I'm sure had been involved heavily with PE. RS PS - Unity's analysis of libel laws is correct. Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to curry facour with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to curry favour with an opposition.

Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend’s son was briefly Cameron’s Chief of Staff and I’m sure had been involved heavily with PE.

RS

PS - Unity’s analysis of libel laws is correct.

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By: Reactionary Snob http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7644 Reactionary Snob Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:38 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7644 Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to curry facour with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to curry favour with an opposition. Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend's son was briefly Cameron's Chief of Staff and I'm sure had been involved heavily with PE. RS PS - Unity's analysis of libel laws is correct. Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to curry facour with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to curry favour with an opposition.

Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend’s son was briefly Cameron’s Chief of Staff and I’m sure had been involved heavily with PE.

RS

PS - Unity’s analysis of libel laws is correct.

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By: Reactionary Snob http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7642 Reactionary Snob Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:02:15 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7642 Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to buy influence with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to buy influence with an opposition. Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend's son was briefly Cameron's Chief of Staff and I'm sure had been involved heavily with PE. RS PS - Unity's analysis of libel laws is correct. Firstly, I understand the legal aspects, Unity. In real terms, however, you must see that a group attempting to buy influence with a government is more newsworthy and more nefarious in general than a group attempting to buy influence with an opposition.

Secondly, I think the links between Policy Exchange and The Cameron camp are probably deeper than you think. A friend of a friend’s son was briefly Cameron’s Chief of Staff and I’m sure had been involved heavily with PE.

RS

PS - Unity’s analysis of libel laws is correct.

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By: Cllr Darren Cooper http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7640 Cllr Darren Cooper Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:21:16 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7640 I agree. I agree.

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7637 Unity Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:31:44 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7637 RS: 1) Actually, RS, it's always been the 'done thing' as a sanction against those who are dishonest in their on-line dealings with others. Without naming names, there's a Tory blogger out there who's identity I recently helped to conceal, so it cuts both ways. If someone's straight with me and I notice that they've left themselves exposed, I'll happily advise then on how to cover their tracks, but if someone goes in for trolling or behaves dishonestly then I've no great qualms about removing their anonymity in order to push them into being a little more honest in future. 2) In terms of charity law there is little material difference between the two - both attract considerable sums of money from donors who believe that one way or another they're buying themselves the inside track on future policy decision. The bottom line is that both parties are at it. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article658414.ece RS:

1) Actually, RS, it’s always been the ‘done thing’ as a sanction against those who are dishonest in their on-line dealings with others.

Without naming names, there’s a Tory blogger out there who’s identity I recently helped to conceal, so it cuts both ways. If someone’s straight with me and I notice that they’ve left themselves exposed, I’ll happily advise then on how to cover their tracks, but if someone goes in for trolling or behaves dishonestly then I’ve no great qualms about removing their anonymity in order to push them into being a little more honest in future.

2) In terms of charity law there is little material difference between the two - both attract considerable sums of money from donors who believe that one way or another they’re buying themselves the inside track on future policy decision.

The bottom line is that both parties are at it.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article658414.ece

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By: Reactionary Snob http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7635 Reactionary Snob Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:15:29 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7635 1) Is it the done thing these days to out bloggers? 2) Even if it isn't, surely you can see the rather large difference between the Policy Exchange & the Conservatives and The Smith Institute & Labour... is that the Labour Party are in power. I don't deny that there are links between Policy & the Tories, they are very close but I have more of an issue with what is going on between the government and a think tank than the opposition and a think tank. Surely that is the issue? RS 1) Is it the done thing these days to out bloggers?

2) Even if it isn’t, surely you can see the rather large difference between the Policy Exchange & the Conservatives and The Smith Institute & Labour… is that the Labour Party are in power.

I don’t deny that there are links between Policy & the Tories, they are very close but I have more of an issue with what is going on between the government and a think tank than the opposition and a think tank.

Surely that is the issue?

RS

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By: Lobster Blogster http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7631 Lobster Blogster Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:56:24 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7631 Even a football hooligan needs a nice glass of fine British ale from time to time. I'd chuck out the noncy ones who drink peanut colata... Even a football hooligan needs a nice glass of fine British ale from time to time. I’d chuck out the noncy ones who drink peanut colata…

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7084 Unity Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:54:41 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7084 Welcome to Britain's berserker libel laws. In essence, yes, libel can reside in matters of interpretation of factual statements. Say, for example, that posted an article in which I stated that I had seen you going in to a pub that was well known as a meeting place for football hooligans. Factually that statement could be perfectly true - you did go into a pub and the pub is known as meeting place for football hooligans, yet you could still claim to have been libelled because the juxtaposition of two facts could be interpreted as suggesting that were seen going into that particular pub because you are football hooligan, in which case I would then have to prove either that you are football hooligan, which is why you went to the pub, or that the inference that you are football hooligan is not one that reasonable person would make from that statement. You, on the other hand - would have to prove nothing. Welcome to Britain’s berserker libel laws.

In essence, yes, libel can reside in matters of interpretation of factual statements.

Say, for example, that posted an article in which I stated that I had seen you going in to a pub that was well known as a meeting place for football hooligans.

Factually that statement could be perfectly true - you did go into a pub and the pub is known as meeting place for football hooligans, yet you could still claim to have been libelled because the juxtaposition of two facts could be interpreted as suggesting that were seen going into that particular pub because you are football hooligan, in which case I would then have to prove either that you are football hooligan, which is why you went to the pub, or that the inference that you are football hooligan is not one that reasonable person would make from that statement.

You, on the other hand - would have to prove nothing.

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By: Larry Teabag http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7081 Larry Teabag Wed, 14 Feb 2007 16:51:57 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7081 Unity, you're a knowledgeable sort of bloke - would Semen Staines really have a legal leg to stand on if someone republished the (unretracted public-domain) Guardian article? Could he <em>really</em> argue that it might be interpreted in a defamatory way, despite the contents being (apparently) accurate? I find it very hard to believe. Unity, you’re a knowledgeable sort of bloke - would Semen Staines really have a legal leg to stand on if someone republished the (unretracted public-domain) Guardian article? Could he really argue that it might be interpreted in a defamatory way, despite the contents being (apparently) accurate?

I find it very hard to believe.

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By: john http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7063 john Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:29:08 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7063 it looks like you bloggers are going the same way as our UK politics, up your own ass holes, tossers. it looks like you bloggers are going the same way as our UK politics, up your own ass holes, tossers.

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By: Devil's Kitchen http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7059 Devil's Kitchen Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:28:18 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7059 "There is an acceptance amongst established bloggers that many of us are natural dissenters and that its ‘bad form’ to make too much of it or try to turn twist such dissent into a means of political attack in ways that might seriously embarrass another blogger - if we lose that culture, then some of us are going to be left with a choice of censoring our own opinions to avoid them being used against us..." This is precisely one of the reasons why I got annoyed at UKIPHome a couple of months back. A good post, Unity, and I echo your comments about a variable blogroll. You, Justin, etc. who I mentioned are still in my RSS feed and will continue to be (unless the actual quality of your writing and investigation diminishes), as are Guido and Iain. That doesn't mean to say that I won't disagree with anyone (and I have certainly attacked Iain as a hypocrite before: not least here: http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2006/11/iain-dale-and-ukip.html). Personally, the only person that I agree with totally is me (and I have changed my opinions over the years, becoming more and more towards the minarchist libertarian side)! However, I am always honest by my lights; I declare my interests and the only party that I utterly agree with is the Devil's Kitchen Party! I don't particularly like Tim Ireland's blog but then that's partly because I don't find his writing particularly compelling and, as I said last night on 18DS, because I am happy sitting on my arse and he's more of a "doer" (perhaps he makes me feel guilty? No...). Time is rather relative here, eh? I have been doing this only a little over two years and I feel like an old man of blogging! DK “There is an acceptance amongst established bloggers that many of us are natural dissenters and that its ‘bad form’ to make too much of it or try to turn twist such dissent into a means of political attack in ways that might seriously embarrass another blogger - if we lose that culture, then some of us are going to be left with a choice of censoring our own opinions to avoid them being used against us…”

This is precisely one of the reasons why I got annoyed at UKIPHome a couple of months back.

A good post, Unity, and I echo your comments about a variable blogroll. You, Justin, etc. who I mentioned are still in my RSS feed and will continue to be (unless the actual quality of your writing and investigation diminishes), as are Guido and Iain. That doesn’t mean to say that I won’t disagree with anyone (and I have certainly attacked Iain as a hypocrite before: not least here: http://devilskitchen.me.uk/2006/11/iain-dale-and-ukip.html).

Personally, the only person that I agree with totally is me (and I have changed my opinions over the years, becoming more and more towards the minarchist libertarian side)! However, I am always honest by my lights; I declare my interests and the only party that I utterly agree with is the Devil’s Kitchen Party!

I don’t particularly like Tim Ireland’s blog but then that’s partly because I don’t find his writing particularly compelling and, as I said last night on 18DS, because I am happy sitting on my arse and he’s more of a “doer” (perhaps he makes me feel guilty? No…).

Time is rather relative here, eh? I have been doing this only a little over two years and I feel like an old man of blogging!

DK

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By: Guano http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7058 Guano Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:48:04 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7058 Have I missed the 400 word retraction to the 1980s Guardian article? Have I missed the 400 word retraction to the 1980s Guardian article?

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By: Tim Ireland http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7054 Tim Ireland Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:20:05 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7054 LOL Dominic, your bluster means nothing here... stop wasting it. We all remember how you behaved when you were last thrown to the mat. LOL

Dominic, your bluster means nothing here… stop wasting it.

We all remember how you behaved when you were last thrown to the mat.

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7051 Unity Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:26:52 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7051 Fair enough - I've checked and you're not the Dominic Fisher cited as co-author on a number of ESOL text books. Do excuse me for having accused you of achieving something with your life. It's not a mistake I'll make again. Fair enough - I’ve checked and you’re not the Dominic Fisher cited as co-author on a number of ESOL text books.

Do excuse me for having accused you of achieving something with your life. It’s not a mistake I’ll make again.

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By: Praguetory http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7050 Praguetory Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:20:56 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7050 The inaccuracies in your comments about me are laughable. The inaccuracies in your comments about me are laughable.

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7047 Unity Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:07:13 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7047 PT: >>> You won't control me. Thanks for admitting that you try to. Fuck me, PT. Look I know you teach ESOL, but I think you should take a bit of break as its seems you're starting to adopt rather too much of your students' command of English. I should say, having thought about it, that I do recall seeing Tom mention blogrolling Susanne's blog in passing and even commented on the post - words to the effect of 'are you planning a boring category?' Sorry, but I've never quite seen Susanne's appeal - matter of personal taste that all - and I can't say I paid much attention to what Tom had posted. I will own up to one mistake. You're not a twat - you're sanctimonious, whinging, twat. PT:

>>> You won’t control me. Thanks for admitting that you try to.

Fuck me, PT.

Look I know you teach ESOL, but I think you should take a bit of break as its seems you’re starting to adopt rather too much of your students’ command of English.

I should say, having thought about it, that I do recall seeing Tom mention blogrolling Susanne’s blog in passing and even commented on the post - words to the effect of ‘are you planning a boring category?’

Sorry, but I’ve never quite seen Susanne’s appeal - matter of personal taste that all - and I can’t say I paid much attention to what Tom had posted.

I will own up to one mistake. You’re not a twat - you’re sanctimonious, whinging, twat.

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7046 Unity Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:58:21 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7046 Thank you for that. I know what the various allegations are, thank you very much, but you'll also note that I've chosen not to comment on them myself because it's none of my business. I'm not bashing Suz at all - if you bother to read my comments properly, what I'm saying is that this is between her and the LDs and she should be allowed to deal with this herself, without outside interference from rubbernecking Tories, like I would guess, yourself given that your email address includes the words 'libdem' and 'watcher'. Now do try an read what I've actually said, rather that what you'd wish I'd said. Oh, as you're obviously rather naive in these things, let me just point out one thing - Suz has far more of a prospect of being taken seriously in her concerns if she can do what she feels she needs to do without having a bunch of politicking Tories crawling all over her. An an independent voice, the worst that can be thrown at her is that she's a disgruntled ex-member - with twats like you around she stands a very good chance of being labelled a Tory stooge and getting her concerns blown-off on that basis alone. Thank you for that.

I know what the various allegations are, thank you very much, but you’ll also note that I’ve chosen not to comment on them myself because it’s none of my business.

I’m not bashing Suz at all - if you bother to read my comments properly, what I’m saying is that this is between her and the LDs and she should be allowed to deal with this herself, without outside interference from rubbernecking Tories, like I would guess, yourself given that your email address includes the words ‘libdem’ and ‘watcher’.

Now do try an read what I’ve actually said, rather that what you’d wish I’d said.

Oh, as you’re obviously rather naive in these things, let me just point out one thing - Suz has far more of a prospect of being taken seriously in her concerns if she can do what she feels she needs to do without having a bunch of politicking Tories crawling all over her.

An an independent voice, the worst that can be thrown at her is that she’s a disgruntled ex-member - with twats like you around she stands a very good chance of being labelled a Tory stooge and getting her concerns blown-off on that basis alone.

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By: Anon http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7045 Anon Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:38:42 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/02/12/open-letter-to-iain-dale/#comment-7045 See you have got on the bashing Suz bandwagon by listening to stories and not asking the person concerned. The whole issue surrounds Haringey Cllr Fiyaz Mughal who in Sept 06 sent out some vile fanatical muslin emails to around 70 people. The women reported it but in the light of day he claimed his email box was broken into and it wasn't him. He claimed there was/is a police investigation but nobody has seen any outcome. Haringey police don't seem to know anything about it. He reported her for passing on the mails as if she was the one who sent them out in the first place. Everybody know he wrote them but as they are so horrendous there has been an emergency covered up. See you have got on the bashing Suz bandwagon by listening to stories and not asking the person concerned.

The whole issue surrounds Haringey Cllr Fiyaz Mughal who in Sept 06 sent out some vile fanatical muslin emails to around 70 people. The women reported it but in the light of day he claimed his email box was broken into and it wasn’t him. He claimed there was/is a police investigation but nobody has seen any outcome. Haringey police don’t seem to know anything about it.

He reported her for passing on the mails as if she was the one who sent them out in the first place. Everybody know he wrote them but as they are so horrendous there has been an emergency covered up.

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