Comments on: A note of quiet despair… http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/ VoilĂ ! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:36:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Jeremy Jacobs http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11177 Jeremy Jacobs Thu, 03 May 2007 23:31:51 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11177 Great response. Great response.

]]>
By: Ministry of Truth http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11164 Ministry of Truth Thu, 03 May 2007 16:17:06 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11164 [...] there could possibly be a less edifying spectacle that yesterday’s foray into futility, which the Guardian billed as an live ‘debate’ about on-line ‘civility’ [...] […] there could possibly be a less edifying spectacle that yesterday’s foray into futility, which the Guardian billed as an live ‘debate’ about on-line ‘civility’ […]

]]>
By: Tim Ireland http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11130 Tim Ireland Wed, 02 May 2007 18:23:05 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11130 I quite appreciated the potential for discussion that the Kathy Sierra brouhaha presented us with... but I'm not in favour of some 'from on high' code of conduct (despite what dipshits like Dale and Staines would have folks believe). I believe that the potential is there for us to sort our own problems. And, from that statement alone, you should be able to work out that I think that there *are* some problems. I quite appreciated the potential for discussion that the Kathy Sierra brouhaha presented us with… but I’m not in favour of some ‘from on high’ code of conduct (despite what dipshits like Dale and Staines would have folks believe).

I believe that the potential is there for us to sort our own problems. And, from that statement alone, you should be able to work out that I think that there *are* some problems.

]]>
By: Phil http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11129 Phil Wed, 02 May 2007 17:43:24 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11129 I avoided blogging about the Kathy Sierra brouhaha at the time in the hope it would all go away (two responses I particularly liked came from <a href="http://burningbird.net/connecting/one-more-post/" rel="nofollow">Shelley Powers</a> and <a href="http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2007/04/thanks_tim_and.php" rel="nofollow">Nick Carr</a>). Deeply depressing to see Jowell attempting to jump on the bandwagon, especially when the bandwagon's already ground to a halt. Nice work from yourself and Tim. I avoided blogging about the Kathy Sierra brouhaha at the time in the hope it would all go away (two responses I particularly liked came from Shelley Powers and Nick Carr). Deeply depressing to see Jowell attempting to jump on the bandwagon, especially when the bandwagon’s already ground to a halt. Nice work from yourself and Tim.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11128 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 17:20:59 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11128 Tom: What can I say? Someone has to fight the good fight. It needed to be said and it much more difficult for Tessa to dismiss out of hand when it comes from inside her own party Tom:

What can I say? Someone has to fight the good fight.

It needed to be said and it much more difficult for Tessa to dismiss out of hand when it comes from inside her own party

]]>
By: Tom Paine http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11125 Tom Paine Wed, 02 May 2007 16:36:23 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11125 Well done and thank you. Well done and thank you.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11124 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 16:31:38 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11124 Labourhome? Bit to inward-looking and Westminsterish for my tastes, I'm afraid - reads a bit to much like a Labour Party parish noticeboard. Labourhome?

Bit to inward-looking and Westminsterish for my tastes, I’m afraid - reads a bit to much like a Labour Party parish noticeboard.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11123 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 16:28:27 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11123 Well, it looks like that's all she wrote - she off to run 5k round Battersea Park in support of Cancer Research... if any snipers are looking in. So, what did we get for our 50 minutes..? The government has no intention of trying to legislate/regulate bloggers. Blogging should not have no-go areas, apparently - I think she's suggesting that the robust character of online debate may be a bit off putting for some people. Extreme abuse and threatening language makes people apprehensive. To much political debate is cynical and intolerant. Sounds like a typical week's PMQs to me... Well, it looks like that’s all she wrote - she off to run 5k round Battersea Park in support of Cancer Research… if any snipers are looking in.

So, what did we get for our 50 minutes..?

The government has no intention of trying to legislate/regulate bloggers.

Blogging should not have no-go areas, apparently - I think she’s suggesting that the robust character of online debate may be a bit off putting for some people.

Extreme abuse and threatening language makes people apprehensive.

To much political debate is cynical and intolerant.

Sounds like a typical week’s PMQs to me…

]]>
By: Jag Singh http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11122 Jag Singh Wed, 02 May 2007 16:28:22 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11122 Hey Unity - what is your opinion of Labourhome? Hey Unity - what is your opinion of Labourhome?

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11120 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 16:19:14 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11120 At least Tim got in there: <i>Tim Ireland: Tony Blair taking years to make good on his promise to simply be accessible via email, The Big Conversation, Labour activists (working in tandem with F4J of all people) bullying Jody Dunn via her weblog, Alastair Campbell and his world cup 'weblog' where he was allowed to discuss politics and we were not, David Miliband spending our money on a weblog where he is allowed to play political games, but no party-political discussion is allowed... I could go on and on (and often do). Contempt, contempt, and more contempt. Your lot helped to create the current problem, Tessa. You want to help fix it? You can start by leading by example.</i> At least Tim got in there:

Tim Ireland:

Tony Blair taking years to make good on his promise to simply be accessible via email, The Big Conversation, Labour activists (working in tandem with F4J of all people) bullying Jody Dunn via her weblog, Alastair Campbell and his world cup ‘weblog’ where he was allowed to discuss politics and we were not, David Miliband spending our money on a weblog where he is allowed to play political games, but no party-political discussion is allowed… I could go on and on (and often do).

Contempt, contempt, and more contempt.

Your lot helped to create the current problem, Tessa.

You want to help fix it? You can start by leading by example.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11119 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 16:16:50 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11119 Just when I thought it had died completely on its arse, I found a couple of replies buried under earlier comments... <i>we are all entitled to take part in this debate. my press officer objects to being called a flunky. nothing that i say is intended to be patronising but i do think that we need a different kind of political debate, too much is conducted in a tone of intolerance and cynicism. so i think that you will get more people joining you if you make it clear that you stand for something different. </i> Quite... when does the standing for something different begin in govenment? <i>I think that there are similarities btween say parks and bloggoshere,and other aspects of the public realm.remember that these are democratic spaces where people meet as equals. in that most such spaces need broadly defined rules of engagement the debate about voluntary code is useful. I do think that it is right that comment should be owned and not anonymous and that vigorous debate should not be masked by simple abuse that is a substitute for argument. I am but one voice in this in a debate that i hpe will go on with thousands of others. thank you to all of you who have taken part over the last hour . </i> Parks? I must ask the council which bit of our local park specifically belongs to me because that's the only way this analogy works. Just when I thought it had died completely on its arse, I found a couple of replies buried under earlier comments…

we are all entitled to take part in this debate. my press officer objects to being called a flunky. nothing that i say is intended to be patronising but i do think that we need a different kind of political debate, too much is conducted in a tone of intolerance and cynicism. so i think that you will get more people joining you if you make it clear that you stand for something different.

Quite… when does the standing for something different begin in govenment?

I think that there are similarities btween say parks and bloggoshere,and other aspects of the public realm.remember that these are democratic spaces where people meet as equals. in that most such spaces need broadly defined rules of engagement the debate about voluntary code is useful. I do think that it is right that comment should be owned and not anonymous and that vigorous debate should not be masked by simple abuse that is a substitute for argument. I am but one voice in this in a debate that i hpe will go on with thousands of others. thank you to all of you who have taken part over the last hour .

Parks? I must ask the council which bit of our local park specifically belongs to me because that’s the only way this analogy works.

]]>
By: Mr Eugenides http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11118 Mr Eugenides Wed, 02 May 2007 16:16:25 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11118 Don't worry, DK, if Patsy Hewitt wanders into the Kitchen I'll hold her down while you insert the cockroaches. We'll share a cell. It'll be fun. Don’t worry, DK, if Patsy Hewitt wanders into the Kitchen I’ll hold her down while you insert the cockroaches.

We’ll share a cell. It’ll be fun.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11117 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 16:02:55 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11117 DK: I think you've probably more chance of a visit from Patsy Hewitt, and if that happens I'd plead justifiable verbal homicide. DK:

I think you’ve probably more chance of a visit from Patsy Hewitt, and if that happens I’d plead justifiable verbal homicide.

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11116 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 15:58:20 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11116 The ribbing over typos is now kicking in in earnest... <i>I couldn't agree more, Jeff. It's just that some of us are enjoying the irony that a former Minister of state at the Department of - ahem - Education and Employment actually requires a spell checker. </i> The ribbing over typos is now kicking in in earnest…

I couldn’t agree more, Jeff. It’s just that some of us are enjoying the irony that a former Minister of state at the Department of - ahem - Education and Employment actually requires a spell checker.

]]>
By: Devil's Kitchen http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11115 Devil's Kitchen Wed, 02 May 2007 15:58:09 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11115 Do you think that no-go areas might include your humble Devil's Kitchen? She's welcome to show up; I just can't be answerable for my actions. DK Do you think that no-go areas might include your humble Devil’s Kitchen? She’s welcome to show up; I just can’t be answerable for my actions.

DK

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11114 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 15:54:58 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11114 And now its all gone quiet... Anyone got a freshly painted wall I can watch for a few minutes while I'm waiting... And now its all gone quiet…

Anyone got a freshly painted wall I can watch for a few minutes while I’m waiting…

]]>
By: Tim Ireland http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11113 Tim Ireland Wed, 02 May 2007 15:44:31 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11113 The Labour Party and Downing Street have shown nothing but contempt for the public at in general... never mind those who use the internet in this way. Tessa Jowell is the last person who should be flapping her lips about this... and it's pretty obvious that if it weren't this subject she would be stunt-riding on another. (PS - Don't say I didn't warn you.) The Labour Party and Downing Street have shown nothing but contempt for the public at in general… never mind those who use the internet in this way.

Tessa Jowell is the last person who should be flapping her lips about this… and it’s pretty obvious that if it weren’t this subject she would be stunt-riding on another.

(PS - Don’t say I didn’t warn you.)

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11112 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 15:40:27 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11112 And the first boot goes in but a minute later... EvilGiraffe: <i>there is absolutely no intension in government to give any kind of legisatory or statutory affect to this</i><i> So if it's unenforceable, there's no point to it. So why bother? Followed rapidly by... Oh, and call me Lynne Truss, but it's spelled existence. Welcome to GU Talk, Ms Jowell. Maybe they're looking for a touch typist now to go with the dictionary...</i> And the first boot goes in but a minute later…

EvilGiraffe:

there is absolutely no intension in government to give any kind of legisatory or statutory affect to this

So if it’s unenforceable, there’s no point to it. So why bother?

Followed rapidly by…

Oh, and call me Lynne Truss, but it’s spelled existence.

Welcome to GU Talk, Ms Jowell.

Maybe they’re looking for a touch typist now to go with the dictionary…

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11111 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 15:37:55 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11111 16:35 and Tessa has entered the building... <i>Hello, everybody. Thank you very much for all the provocative comments, you have posted. To begin with, I make no claim to be a regular blogger, nor in effect is my contribution more than a contribution to the debate that the code of conduct has started. Why no more? Because there is absolutely no intension in government to give any kind of legisatory or statutory affect to this. So you may ask what business is it of mine to express a view. Well it is this, that the independence of the blogosphere is passionately defended by its participants but there is also a risk and you know as well as I do that this exists. That for some people who would like to take part, it is in effect a no-go area, and just as we would not tolerate the existance of no-go areas in our towns and cities, so I think we should be aware to that risk in the bloggersphere. ANd it is the risk of extreme abuse or threatening language that creates this apprehension. Call me lilly-livered, but I don't think any society, even a virtual one in the long run thrives on that basis. But in the end, it is up to you how the bloggersphere functions.</i> I think's she's caught the mood already and knows it could get ugly... especially as I saw PikeBishop kicking around in there earlier... 16:35 and Tessa has entered the building…

Hello, everybody. Thank you very much for all the provocative comments, you have posted.

To begin with, I make no claim to be a regular blogger, nor in effect is my contribution more than a contribution to the debate that the code of conduct has started.

Why no more? Because there is absolutely no intension in government to give any kind of legisatory or statutory affect to this.

So you may ask what business is it of mine to express a view. Well it is this, that the independence of the blogosphere is passionately defended by its participants but there is also a risk and you know as well as I do that this exists. That for some people who would like to take part, it is in effect a no-go area, and just as we would not tolerate the existance of no-go areas in our towns and cities, so I think we should be aware to that risk in the bloggersphere.

ANd it is the risk of extreme abuse or threatening language that creates this apprehension.

Call me lilly-livered, but I don’t think any society, even a virtual one in the long run thrives on that basis.

But in the end, it is up to you how the bloggersphere functions.

I think’s she’s caught the mood already and knows it could get ugly… especially as I saw PikeBishop kicking around in there earlier…

]]>
By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11110 Unity Wed, 02 May 2007 15:34:07 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/05/02/a-note-of-quiet-despair/#comment-11110 16:31 and this looking like a car-crash in the making... The natives has noticed the time and are starting to get rather restless - all does not auger well for Tessa, when she starts drawing comments like this before she's even out the starting gate: Perhaps the first step for Ms Jowell to 'increase the quality of internet debates' is to engage in one, rather than chickening out quicker than a minister from a chat with Paxman. 16:31 and this looking like a car-crash in the making…

The natives has noticed the time and are starting to get rather restless - all does not auger well for Tessa, when she starts drawing comments like this before she’s even out the starting gate:

Perhaps the first step for Ms Jowell to ‘increase the quality of internet debates’ is to engage in one, rather than chickening out quicker than a minister from a chat with Paxman.

]]>