Comments on: Dale blows a gasket… http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/ Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:33:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21198 Unity Mon, 09 Jul 2007 06:21:11 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21198 Give that the information appears in quotes in Tom's blog post, I'd say it comes direct from Gilligan's article in the Standard. Give that the information appears in quotes in Tom’s blog post, I’d say it comes direct from Gilligan’s article in the Standard.

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By: Tom http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21179 Tom Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:00:51 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21179 Pedantry Time: "preferring the leafier environs of the Chiswick-Isleworth border for himself and his young family”" Er, there are no Chiswick-Isleworth borders, any more than there's a Belgian-Spanish one. Brentford's between them. Is this rather pedantic misinformation down to Lit, Gilligan or Watson, I wonder? I think we should be told. Tom (registered to vote in Hounslow, which includes Chiswick, Brentford and Isleworth - there's no specifically 'Chiswick' registration) Pedantry Time:

“preferring the leafier environs of the Chiswick-Isleworth border for himself and his young family””

Er, there are no Chiswick-Isleworth borders, any more than there’s a Belgian-Spanish one. Brentford’s between them. Is this rather pedantic misinformation down to Lit, Gilligan or Watson, I wonder? I think we should be told.

Tom (registered to vote in Hounslow, which includes Chiswick, Brentford and Isleworth - there’s no specifically ‘Chiswick’ registration)

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By: Charles Pooter http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21097 Charles Pooter Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:18:52 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21097 "You see the problem with your argument is that it will appear convincing only if its addressed to an audience with, at best, a simplistic and un-nuanced appreciation of the complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities." All very interesting but I don't see how the "complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities" have any bearing on Tom's intent. Either he didn't know that the adoption of English names or nicknames is quite common amongst some ethnic minorities, which is ignorant but forgivable or he *did* know but wanted to imply that it was in some way dodgy. Well, actually, he didn't imply it, he pretty much said it *was* suspect. Do you think it is suspect? “You see the problem with your argument is that it will appear convincing only if its addressed to an audience with, at best, a simplistic and un-nuanced appreciation of the complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities.”

All very interesting but I don’t see how the “complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities” have any bearing on Tom’s intent. Either he didn’t know that the adoption of English names or nicknames is quite common amongst some ethnic minorities, which is ignorant but forgivable or he *did* know but wanted to imply that it was in some way dodgy. Well, actually, he didn’t imply it, he pretty much said it *was* suspect. Do you think it is suspect?

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By: Unity http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21088 Unity Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:03:49 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21088 <p>Sorry Charles, doesn't sound any more of a convincing canard in your expanded version that it did when Dale posted it originally.</p> <p>You see the problem with your argument that it implies that what Tom is seeking to suggest is that Lit's adoption of the name 'Tony' is either a deliberate artifice designed either to conceal his ethnic background or to present a favourable and largely benign image consistent with Cameron's efforts to promote as 'integration' as a key theme in Tory social policy.</p> <p>In the absence of further information as to when and why Surinderpal metamorphosed into 'Tony' one cannot reach any judgements on the first point - it may well have been a name adopted in childhood in order to make life a little easier for his peers, or it may be originated as nickname amongst those same peers, or he well indeed have adopted the name on starting his business career, having reached the view that becoming Tony would open doors that might otherwise have been closed to Surinderpal.</p> <p>None of that, however, is of any relevance to a by-election campaign in which, for every obvious and visible reasons, it would be impossible to conceal his origins, at least in broad terms - the best he could do would be leave the matters of his religious identity, such as it might be, and the national origins of his family open to a degree of uncertainty.</p> <p>As for the latter possibility, that is ruled out simply by it being well established that Lit has an identity under the forename 'Tony' that long pre-dates his newly chosen political career.</p> <p>That said, one must also take into account which constituencies within the local electorate, if any, might be influenced in the voting intentions by knowledge of Lit's ethnic background, which for the most part would come down to some traditionalist white Conservatives, who may find some reassurance in his Anglicised identity, and some orthodox religious Sikhs, for whom Lit's adoption of an Anglicised name is of marginal to no importance when set against his decision not to project a specifically religious identity by wearing the 5Ks, the visible symbols of the Sikh faith. Against that, his choice of an Anglicised forename is an irrelevance.</p> <p>You see the problem with your argument is that it will appear convincing only if its addressed to an audience with, at best, a simplistic and un-nuanced appreciation of the complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities.</p> Sorry Charles, doesn’t sound any more of a convincing canard in your expanded version that it did when Dale posted it originally.

You see the problem with your argument that it implies that what Tom is seeking to suggest is that Lit’s adoption of the name ‘Tony’ is either a deliberate artifice designed either to conceal his ethnic background or to present a favourable and largely benign image consistent with Cameron’s efforts to promote as ‘integration’ as a key theme in Tory social policy.

In the absence of further information as to when and why Surinderpal metamorphosed into ‘Tony’ one cannot reach any judgements on the first point - it may well have been a name adopted in childhood in order to make life a little easier for his peers, or it may be originated as nickname amongst those same peers, or he well indeed have adopted the name on starting his business career, having reached the view that becoming Tony would open doors that might otherwise have been closed to Surinderpal.

None of that, however, is of any relevance to a by-election campaign in which, for every obvious and visible reasons, it would be impossible to conceal his origins, at least in broad terms - the best he could do would be leave the matters of his religious identity, such as it might be, and the national origins of his family open to a degree of uncertainty.

As for the latter possibility, that is ruled out simply by it being well established that Lit has an identity under the forename ‘Tony’ that long pre-dates his newly chosen political career.

That said, one must also take into account which constituencies within the local electorate, if any, might be influenced in the voting intentions by knowledge of Lit’s ethnic background, which for the most part would come down to some traditionalist white Conservatives, who may find some reassurance in his Anglicised identity, and some orthodox religious Sikhs, for whom Lit’s adoption of an Anglicised name is of marginal to no importance when set against his decision not to project a specifically religious identity by wearing the 5Ks, the visible symbols of the Sikh faith. Against that, his choice of an Anglicised forename is an irrelevance.

You see the problem with your argument is that it will appear convincing only if its addressed to an audience with, at best, a simplistic and un-nuanced appreciation of the complex social dynamics and religious/cultural mores of minority communities.

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By: Tim Ireland http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21082 Tim Ireland Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:48:14 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21082 "Labelling it so quickly without any evidence or rational reasoning degrades the real meaning of the word." I would argue that the same could apply to the word 'stalker', which has been bandied about all-too-readily in recent months. Knowing someone's real/full name can also help when doing research into their past. Often, just knowing their middle name can make all the difference. “Labelling it so quickly without any evidence or rational reasoning degrades the real meaning of the word.”

I would argue that the same could apply to the word ’stalker’, which has been bandied about all-too-readily in recent months.

Knowing someone’s real/full name can also help when doing research into their past. Often, just knowing their middle name can make all the difference.

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By: Hawthorne http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21079 Hawthorne Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:15:43 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21079 Charles.Pooter it depends, If there is no evidence that a 'Tony Lit' exists anywhere except as a candidate that it is not entirely unreasonable to identify exactly who this character actually is, what he does, what he is like, etc. To immediately suggest that they are being racist is just like when any criticism of Israel is immediately called 'anti-Semite' by some sections of the media. Labelling it so quickly without any evidence or rational reasoning degrades the real meaning of the word. Charles.Pooter it depends, If there is no evidence that a ‘Tony Lit’ exists anywhere except as a candidate that it is not entirely unreasonable to identify exactly who this character actually is, what he does, what he is like, etc. To immediately suggest that they are being racist is just like when any criticism of Israel is immediately called ‘anti-Semite’ by some sections of the media. Labelling it so quickly without any evidence or rational reasoning degrades the real meaning of the word.

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By: Charles.Pooter http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21077 Charles.Pooter Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:41:44 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21077 It is quite common for Asians to adopt an Engish first name, especially when their actual first name is hard for English speakers to pronounce. As an example, a boy at my school was named "Steven Singh." The name need not have any relation to their "real" first name. To not know this is ignorant and suggests insulation from ethnic minorities. To know this and to make a point about it, implying that it is in some way dodgy, *is* borderline racist. This reminds of how Labour activists treated Eddy Shah in the 80s. They always liked to make sure that everyone knew that "Eddy" wasn't his "real" name. It is quite common for Asians to adopt an Engish first name, especially when their actual first name is hard for English speakers to pronounce. As an example, a boy at my school was named “Steven Singh.” The name need not have any relation to their “real” first name. To not know this is ignorant and suggests insulation from ethnic minorities. To know this and to make a point about it, implying that it is in some way dodgy, *is* borderline racist.

This reminds of how Labour activists treated Eddy Shah in the 80s. They always liked to make sure that everyone knew that “Eddy” wasn’t his “real” name.

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By: Tim Ireland http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21076 Tim Ireland Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:22:20 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21076 I think, Iain, that the pertinent question is; "Is that the best you can do for a rebuttal?" You'll eaten alive if you ever reach the Commons. Thanks for responding to my polite email on this subject, BTW. Your time, effort, fairness and sincerity when dealing with criticism is always appreciated. I think, Iain, that the pertinent question is; “Is that the best you can do for a rebuttal?”

You’ll eaten alive if you ever reach the Commons.

Thanks for responding to my polite email on this subject, BTW. Your time, effort, fairness and sincerity when dealing with criticism is always appreciated.

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By: Bloggerheads http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21069 Bloggerheads Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:05:04 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21069 <strong>EXCLUSIVE OPINION: Amateur Histrionics...</strong> Why do by-elections seem particularly unpleasant? Well, for starters, there are more politicians and activists available. Of course, lately we also have the Tories 'dominating' the blogosphere (in much the same way that a diarrheic dog dominates a cr... EXCLUSIVE OPINION: Amateur Histrionics…

Why do by-elections seem particularly unpleasant? Well, for starters, there are more politicians and activists available. Of course, lately we also have the Tories ‘dominating’ the blogosphere (in much the same way that a diarrheic dog dominates a cr…

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By: Yozzer http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21062 Yozzer Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:02:54 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21062 Chuffin' Nora, talk about clinical dissection.. "So, simply posing the question as to why a Tory candidate is using two aliases, one of which happens to be the name under which he’s standing for election, in addition to his legally registered name is racist, is it? Why?" The question has been asked several times.As yet the answer seems to be absent...keep up the excellent work... Chuffin’ Nora, talk about clinical dissection..

“So, simply posing the question as to why a Tory candidate is using two aliases, one of which happens to be the name under which he’s standing for election, in addition to his legally registered name is racist, is it?

Why?”

The question has been asked several times.As yet the answer seems to be absent…keep up the excellent work…

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By: jailhouselawyer http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21051 jailhouselawyer Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:58:49 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21051 I shouldn't laugh at someone's misfortune, there is probably no connection between Mr Dale's brain, assuming he has one, and his fingertips. It is all making what would otherwise be a rather dull and boring by-election quite interesting. I thought it used to be the case, that when a MP died in office, out of respect the other parties would not contest the election? I shouldn’t laugh at someone’s misfortune, there is probably no connection between Mr Dale’s brain, assuming he has one, and his fingertips. It is all making what would otherwise be a rather dull and boring by-election quite interesting. I thought it used to be the case, that when a MP died in office, out of respect the other parties would not contest the election?

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By: epsilon http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21050 epsilon Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:32:25 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21050 I don't think Iain Dale has a life, no.... Back to the cooking sherry in Tunbridge Wells, Iain! I don’t think Iain Dale has a life, no….

Back to the cooking sherry in Tunbridge Wells, Iain!

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By: Bob Piper http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21048 Bob Piper Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:57:27 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21048 <strong>Taxi for Dale...</strong> The Minister of Truth just gets better and better. Dale blows a gasket....... Taxi for Dale…

The Minister of Truth just gets better and better. Dale blows a gasket…….

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By: Iain Dale http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21047 Iain Dale Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:51:37 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21047 do you actually have a life? do you actually have a life?

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By: Laughing http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21041 Laughing Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:07:57 +0000 http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/2007/07/06/dale-blows-a-gasket/#comment-21041 Unity, you are quite the genius Unity, you are quite the genius

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